A month ago, before a sojourn to the South of France, we caught up with two of the main creative producers behind and . It was part of a week of back-to-back interviews that will unspool over the next few weeks, and, frankly, we forgot how potent it was. The -hosted series exploded in popularity in its third season after a breakout second go-around, which won the Reality Competition Series Emmy Award last September. And like many of their blunt contestants, Rees-Jones and Cotton keep very little close to the vest. They are having too good a time making the show to keep too many secrets. And thank god for that.

READ MORE: Alan Cumming’s chin was on the floor after a “bold” banishment during “The Traitors” season 3 [Interview]

Our very long conversation (it’s worth the long read), reflects on everything from vs. what would happen if a Traitor blew up the game (they have a plan), how the publicly announced celebrity U.K. version of these how will be different fro the U.S. one, and a ton more (we mean a ton). One specific question we had was a criticism that circulated from the contestants themselves: Why isn’t there a penalty when the Faithfuls consistently miss out on eliminating a Traitor week after week?

responded, “What I would say is we watch everyone’s responses to the season with a fine-tooth comb, and we talk about everything as well. Nothing’s off the table with ‘The Traitors. The most important thing, there’s a really brilliant format at the center of it, which we are so passionate about. We love the format, so we would never do anything to jeopardize the overall format, but absolutely, we discuss everything

As you wonder if that means a modification could be in the air for season four, enjoy this deep dive into Peacock’s biggest hit.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

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That’s a good question. Look, I think we learn lots every single season. I think what’s most interesting about the show is that we always call it a game before we call it a TV show, and that we always say that we set the game at the start and then see how it plays out. What’s really interesting is every time we put a new cast in, they play it in a different way. We are always interested in how that game pans out differently. I would say one of our biggest takeaways has always been the challenges and the missions within the shows, and by that, I mean in season 2, we introduced the shields more into the actual missions themselves and embedded them within it. In season 3, we want to take that up a notch, and we’re interested to see how the missions and the challenges [play out]. One could also drive more story within the castle as well. So, we introduced things last year, like our first mission was that Ring of Fire mission, where they had to kick people off the boat and lead them on apontoon, which gave us a great story afterwards when those people left behind returned to it. So, I think one of our biggest lessons we’d learned from series 2 that we took into series 3 was how we could use those missions as another tool to create story within the cast itself.

I think what we love with season 3, is we really explored the cause and effect and the players’ actions having a consequence, and that’s something that I think we dialed into a lot more, whether it be within the twist, whether in the missions, all of the decisions that they made, they could have a consequence.

I think an example of that is in episode one, where there was Boston Rob, who was the master figure, and someone could step forward and swap another player out and take him in. We had no idea what was going to happen on that. We’d always planned that if someone was swapped out, they would become the final Traitor, and if Rob wasn’t swapped in, he would become the final Traitor. And we really loved that concept because he didn’t know what was going to happen. We thought Danielle could swap out Britney, or Carolyn might swap out someone, and whoever that person is will give is going to become the final Traitor. We really like the idea that it’s the player’s actions that then influence what happens next.

In that moment, no. He didn’t know what was coming. He didn’t know that if he didn’t get swapped out, he would end up in a cage, and then he would be made the secret Traitor. So, yeah, he didn’t know at that moment, and the players didn’t know. Alan did say something at the beginning, “Every decision has a consequence,” when they first arrived. And, like Mike said, we just love the idea that the players, immediately as they arrived at that driveway, made a decision that had an initial consequence, but more importantly, the consequence of who was the fourth Traitor.

and I know that so many of the challenges and setups you do are also based on what you’re doing in the UK, but that’s a different season because those are “civilians”, not celebrities that people would have known. I’m assuming you didn’t do this twist at the beginning of that series because it wouldn’t have worked. Correct?

Sam Rees-Jones: Exactly. And it’s a really good point. What we loved about that twist is it was an opportunity for us to dial into previous relationships and dynamics, and I mean, I’ll just go on a tangent. It was really a casting jigsaw this season, and we really wanted to dial into previous relationships or dynamics, and that was a really important reason for that twist because it helped us deep dive into those dynamics straight away. Was Carolyn going to swap out Tony because they had a previous history with Danielle and Britney? We were able to explore it and expand on it in a storytelling way.

The Playlist: Boston Rob, Danielle, and Wes have participated in many of these competitive shows. They are hardcore gamers. In those moments, were they frustrated? Did it seem like they felt like they were getting played for what they signed up for?

Mike Cotton: I think we tell all of our casts that join, we say, “You’re coming to play the game.” We give them a set of game rules. This is the game, this is how you can play it, but we treat it like a murder mystery, and there’s always going to be unexpected twists and turns, and so they all knew that they were coming into that. They all come into the process thinking they could be murdered on night one and be gone just like Dorinda was last year. They know that they could be there for one day, they could be there for much longer, and they’ll come in knowing that.